Hi Gianni,
>G.H. Hovagimyan's abrasiveness is something that can be effective but I do acknowledge that Michele's response is genuine.
>At the heart of the matter is whether we can keep our debate robust. agreed and understood...
>There are some huge issues out there ... the indifference of a true political elite, indifferent to our needs, ruthless in its greed. ..
I think that it is important to point out that I am not condoning G.H's tone but, there is more to it than meets the eye - a subtext is at play here that, probably cannot be aired and debated until another time.
Your comments and open communication is much appreciated :-)
marc
Agreed .. maybe there's bit of the Zizek in his style. Yes he is abrasive in his style but check out his movie rants. When I'm feeling down and de-energised I play one of them and it re- invigorates me. We are all liars aren't we ... a poet? why not . G.H. Hovagimyan's abrasiveness is something that can be effective but I do acknowledge that Michele's response is genuine. I guess I would have been taken aback but it doesn't mean we need to smother strong disagreement. At the heart of the matter is whether we can keep our debate robust. There are some huge issues out there ... the indifference of a true political elite, indifferent to our needs, ruthless in its greed. ..
gianni
On 12/07/2006, at 12:29 PM, marc wrote:
Hi all,
Even though H.G, has expressed thoughts in a tone which is not in keeping with the usually accepted behaviour on this list, ignoring his comments via the process of Dumbing it down to a level that cheapens the original intention itself, is not advisable. For what was expressed were actually 'bare bones', even though it was intensely shared. What some may conveniently perceive as insults, may actually be something else, if explored further than mere immediate reactions and protocolian default- settings.
A commonly used tactical weapon (especially on the working classes), by (inspiring) despotic rulers, or tactically controlling organizations, and those who follow such unquestioning, institutional protocols; is to drown out valid concerns, dissent and social disquiet by stigmatizing the 'subjective and questioning voice', as a whiner or agressive attacker. This could be in the form of what is perceived as political correctness, which can serve as an officially accepted process and authoritarian positioning of a moral code. This moral code sits well with conservative behaviour, rejecting 'real-raw energy', in favour of a more socially constructed and accepted distant, mechanistic value.
Such properties in essence, whether conscious or not - do act to inflict a de-positioning, which is not a necessary action and more creates yet another scenario of cultural disempowerment and trivializes the disputer's voice, diverting one away from the actual context of what was originally argued or disputed. A patriarchal function that pulls rank, displacing the upstart in question and literally placing them to the back of the queue. Which is political.
H.G. is a very important curator and artist in regard to net art and media art, and by not recognising that his voice is of equal value only communicates a suspicion that we are only allowed to be discussing, under terms of a borgious criterion that serves an elite of people who feel more stronger and sure that they are correct and better than certain groups or individuals, mainly because they are supported in feeling that way.
When one is actually part of a creative field such as net art/ new media, and aware of certain opposing forces contrary to creative freedoms and genuinely interested in sharing troublesome flaws that are either lodged in ourselves, or perpetrated institutionally. It is usually constructive to air ideas and thoughts (they do not necessarily have to be academic) and go through the positive process of discovering where some of these varied and interesting issues lie, theoretically and in practise.
Thomas Moore said 'All attempts to give a strict form to life, even if they are based in a fantasy of self improvement, participate in Sadeian monastic ideals'.
What was experienced on here, on this list was 'Bare Life', and to simply brush the essence of such an experience under the carpet says something, which is unfortunately all too common. That there is no place for urgency, passion and fluid communication that does not conform or reflect the alloted 'tags' or 'signifiers'.
There is a big difference between intellectual argument and academic argument, academic argument comes from a place of culturalized reference, high art, high science, or accepted and supposed informed knowledge that has been institutionally accepted. This means that if you use an academic argument or already prescribed canon innyour argument, you are more likely to be agreed with by those who value such structures and theories. Thus, an immediate rapport occurs, a kind of mental handshake and recognition that one has equally gone through the same learning processes. This is of course a positive experience for those who wish to have their so called intellectual and educational references re-affirmed, but it serves no solution to solve the issue or crux, that 'Academia' only serves the few.
I personally, was not insulted by H.G's comments, as Deborah proposed. He was rude to only one individual on this list. To me, it seemed very much a personal reaction to the position of the debator, and their credentials. I also, would not act the same way as H.G, although I do possess empathy with the intent of his words, that were discussing the wider context and would of been happier if he was not to direct them so personally - but hey that's me.
Let's not get too precious about ourselves and start again - some good stuff being discussed :-)
marc
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-- Furtherfield - http://www.furtherfield.org HTTP - http://www.http.uk.net Node.London - http://www.nodel.org
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